[ELECTRON] separate political mailing list?

Tue Jan 31 19:17:23 UTC 2012

Since we're on the topic, I'd say the Reprap Project (the bigger one) is
less political than simply mimicking evolution/reproduction of organisms.
Any political/social implications are purely in the eye of the beholder, or
perhaps in the eye of Adrian Bowyer (the project initiator) as the case may
be. It is part of the benefit of open / libre projects that by nature
reiterations of a design don't necessarily carry with them the intentions
or values of previous developers, other than those encoded into the design
of the object/software, which is much harder to do, and often easily
undermined (weapons being a good example of this).
I guess my question is can a policy be reliably encoded into an open
project, other than that of openness?
I'd think no, but would be interested in any examples to the contrary.
Loving this discussion, and the reprap tinkering discussions, equally!
Roy

On 30 January 2012 15:41, Thomas Coles <tomcoles at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've always thought that this list was *mostly* about phreaking, hacking,
> electrical engineering and other cool engineering-style projects, but a big
> attraction for me is the non-commercial, off the radar aspect, and fighting
> for the emancipatory power of learning.
>
> To deny that material inventions (especially those that make communication
> easier) don't have a bearing, for good or ill, on the social and political
> landscape would be a bit weird. As would to refuse to discuss them
>
> I mean, if one of us invented a new machinegun style revolutionary piece of
> engineering, I think we'd have discussions about whether there are any
> moral implications to it. Same with SOPA/PIPA, which goes to show what
> happens when people start legislating around technological fact.
>
> Anyway, if you don't enjoy the politics, ignore it. I'm not to hot on the
> Reprap but reading about it doesn't offend me! (And from what I understand,
> there is a deeply political agenda/implication to reprap! The
> concept fitting with semi-anarchistic politics somewhat.)
>
> Best,
>
> Tom
>
> On 30 January 2012 15:11, Benjamin Dembroski <ben at dembroski.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Me again,
> >
> > I just re-read my post, and I think there is one thing that I should
> > probably clarify:
> >
> > I'm not suggesting that the EC is *only* or *more* about the politically
> > active any more than I'm it should *only* be for those purely interested
> in
> > technology.  One type of activity isn't any more or less valid than the
> > other.
> >
> > My point was that there is room for both and others, and I would hope
> that
> > the disparate groups interact and educate each other a little bit :)
>  This
> > includes disagreeing with what people post on this list from time to
> time.
> > Dissenting opinion is always healthy as long as it's expressed with
> respect.
> >
> > And to keep the CCA happy (and because it's fun) sharing what we do with
> > the public should be encouraged whenever possible.  That's why the open
> > days are so important, IMHO.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ben
> >
> > PS.  My offer to bring cookies to a open / social day still stands…
> >
> >
> > On 30 Jan 2012, at 12:59, Ian Bitmap wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for clearing that up Ben/Magnus, and apologies for airing my
> > > frustrations; I'm perhaps in a minority with my disregard for the
> > movement,
> > > so will wish you all well with your efforts; 'Power to the People' etc
> > >
> > > On 30 January 2012 12:18, Benjamin Dembroski <ben at dembroski.net>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Magnus is 100% correct regarding what the club was setup for in the
> > first
> > >> instance.
> > >>
> > >> Of course, things change and as has been said ad nauseam on this list
> > >> before there will always be members who are more political than
> others.
> >  As
> > >> long as there is some kind of technology or hacking based theme to the
> > >> discussion, it is appropriate for this list.
> > >>
> > >> I think it's important for all the members to realise something about
> > how
> > >> the EC is able to exist at all.  At the moment, the CCA donates use of
> > the
> > >> space to the Electron Club.  It's common sense to think that there are
> > >> plenty of other uses that the space could be used for, many of which
> > could
> > >> be to generate revenue for the CCA (which they are short of, like
> almost
> > >> all arts institutions).  The only way that the CCA can justify the
> loss
> > of
> > >> revenue / use of the space is to demonstrate that there is another,
> > perhaps
> > >> greater, benefit to the CCA by having the EC sitting in there.   This
> > >> roughly translates to 'public outreach'.  In other words, it's easy to
> > >> justify the EC when activities that are based in the Club positively
> > affect
> > >> the public that the CCA intends to serve.
> > >>
> > >> Like it or not, it's the 'political' groups like Document, RIB, and
> the
> > >> like that engage in these activities the most often and therefore are
> > >> viewed as the most 'valuable' by our landlords.  Rather than being
> > >> disparaging of 'Citizen Smith', you might want to thank him/her for
> > >> supporting your ability to use the club space for whatever you'd like,
> > for
> > >> free (which you will always be welcome to do as long as the club
> > exists).
> > >>
> > >> My apologies for the tone of this message, but the repeated talk of
> "The
> > >> Electron Club is not political" is very much a matter of cutting your
> > nose
> > >> off to spite your face. The actual situation needed to be made very
> > clear.
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >> Ben D.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 30 Jan 2012, at 11:39, Ian Bitmap wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> why don't we just disregard the politics altogether? Just because I'm
> > >>> interested in open source software does not automatically mean I wish
> > to
> > >>> save the rain forest, adopt a panda or indeed 'smash the state'. The
> > >> recent
> > >>> uprising(?) of the 99% seems to have the air of a 'Citizen Smith'
> > remake,
> > >>> albeit with facebook replacing soapboxes - so please, if just for
> > >>> intellectual refuge, lets leave the politics to the armchair pundits
> > and
> > >>> 1st year social studies students, and get back to what the club was
> > setup
> > >>> for.
> > >>>
> > >>> On 29 January 2012 23:15, James Beeley <james.beeley at ntlworld.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> I'd rather the political stuff went onto a separate list. I'm
> > following
> > >>>> the reprap discussion with great interest, but I really don't want
> to
> > >>>> read about anarchism and the like.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Jim
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Sun, 2012-01-29 at 22:38 +0000, Benjamin Dembroski wrote:
> > >>>>> Hi all,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Lately, there's been a bunch of emails regarding the reprap stuff.
> >  It
> > >>>> sounds like things are progressing, and sounds like a very
> interesting
> > >> and
> > >>>> worthwhile project.  However, The discussion is getting increasingly
> > >>>> specialised.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Given the number of emails, and that they are really only pertinent
> > to
> > >> a
> > >>>> subset of EC members, would it make sense to make a separate mailing
> > >> list
> > >>>> to keep the noise down on the general EC list?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Just a thought,
> > >>>>> Ben D.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
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