[ELECTRON] separate political mailing list?

Benjamin Dembroski ben at dembroski.net
Tue Jan 31 19:35:00 UTC 2012 

I don't have a concrete example to hand, but in French Law there is precedent for the 'moral rights' of an original author.  As far as I can recall, these rights cannot be made void via the transfer of ownership, or copyright licence.

I don't think it's ever been applied to something like FLOSS or Open Hardware, but I wouldn't think it would be much of a stretch…

That's me just thinking off the top of my head.

--
Ben D.
On 31 Jan 2012, at 19:17, Roy Mohan Shearer wrote:

> Since we're on the topic, I'd say the Reprap Project (the bigger one) is
> less political than simply mimicking evolution/reproduction of organisms.
> Any political/social implications are purely in the eye of the beholder, or
> perhaps in the eye of Adrian Bowyer (the project initiator) as the case may
> be. It is part of the benefit of open / libre projects that by nature
> reiterations of a design don't necessarily carry with them the intentions
> or values of previous developers, other than those encoded into the design
> of the object/software, which is much harder to do, and often easily
> undermined (weapons being a good example of this).
> I guess my question is can a policy be reliably encoded into an open
> project, other than that of openness?
> I'd think no, but would be interested in any examples to the contrary.
> Loving this discussion, and the reprap tinkering discussions, equally!
> Roy
> 
> On 30 January 2012 15:41, Thomas Coles <tomcoles at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I've always thought that this list was *mostly* about phreaking, hacking,
>> electrical engineering and other cool engineering-style projects, but a big
>> attraction for me is the non-commercial, off the radar aspect, and fighting
>> for the emancipatory power of learning.
>> 
>> To deny that material inventions (especially those that make communication
>> easier) don't have a bearing, for good or ill, on the social and political
>> landscape would be a bit weird. As would to refuse to discuss them
>> 
>> I mean, if one of us invented a new machinegun style revolutionary piece of
>> engineering, I think we'd have discussions about whether there are any
>> moral implications to it. Same with SOPA/PIPA, which goes to show what
>> happens when people start legislating around technological fact.
>> 
>> Anyway, if you don't enjoy the politics, ignore it. I'm not to hot on the
>> Reprap but reading about it doesn't offend me! (And from what I understand,
>> there is a deeply political agenda/implication to reprap! The
>> concept fitting with semi-anarchistic politics somewhat.)
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Tom
>> 
>> On 30 January 2012 15:11, Benjamin Dembroski <ben at dembroski.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Me again,
>>> 
>>> I just re-read my post, and I think there is one thing that I should
>>> probably clarify:
>>> 
>>> I'm not suggesting that the EC is *only* or *more* about the politically
>>> active any more than I'm it should *only* be for those purely interested
>> in
>>> technology.  One type of activity isn't any more or less valid than the
>>> other.
>>> 
>>> My point was that there is room for both and others, and I would hope
>> that
>>> the disparate groups interact and educate each other a little bit :)
>> This
>>> includes disagreeing with what people post on this list from time to
>> time.
>>> Dissenting opinion is always healthy as long as it's expressed with
>> respect.
>>> 
>>> And to keep the CCA happy (and because it's fun) sharing what we do with
>>> the public should be encouraged whenever possible.  That's why the open
>>> days are so important, IMHO.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ben
>>> 
>>> PS.  My offer to bring cookies to a open / social day still stands…
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 30 Jan 2012, at 12:59, Ian Bitmap wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Thanks for clearing that up Ben/Magnus, and apologies for airing my
>>>> frustrations; I'm perhaps in a minority with my disregard for the
>>> movement,
>>>> so will wish you all well with your efforts; 'Power to the People' etc
>>>> 
>>>> On 30 January 2012 12:18, Benjamin Dembroski <ben at dembroski.net>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Magnus is 100% correct regarding what the club was setup for in the
>>> first
>>>>> instance.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Of course, things change and as has been said ad nauseam on this list
>>>>> before there will always be members who are more political than
>> others.
>>> As
>>>>> long as there is some kind of technology or hacking based theme to the
>>>>> discussion, it is appropriate for this list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think it's important for all the members to realise something about
>>> how
>>>>> the EC is able to exist at all.  At the moment, the CCA donates use of
>>> the
>>>>> space to the Electron Club.  It's common sense to think that there are
>>>>> plenty of other uses that the space could be used for, many of which
>>> could
>>>>> be to generate revenue for the CCA (which they are short of, like
>> almost
>>>>> all arts institutions).  The only way that the CCA can justify the
>> loss
>>> of
>>>>> revenue / use of the space is to demonstrate that there is another,
>>> perhaps
>>>>> greater, benefit to the CCA by having the EC sitting in there.   This
>>>>> roughly translates to 'public outreach'.  In other words, it's easy to
>>>>> justify the EC when activities that are based in the Club positively
>>> affect
>>>>> the public that the CCA intends to serve.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Like it or not, it's the 'political' groups like Document, RIB, and
>> the
>>>>> like that engage in these activities the most often and therefore are
>>>>> viewed as the most 'valuable' by our landlords.  Rather than being
>>>>> disparaging of 'Citizen Smith', you might want to thank him/her for
>>>>> supporting your ability to use the club space for whatever you'd like,
>>> for
>>>>> free (which you will always be welcome to do as long as the club
>>> exists).
>>>>> 
>>>>> My apologies for the tone of this message, but the repeated talk of
>> "The
>>>>> Electron Club is not political" is very much a matter of cutting your
>>> nose
>>>>> off to spite your face. The actual situation needed to be made very
>>> clear.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Ben D.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 30 Jan 2012, at 11:39, Ian Bitmap wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> why don't we just disregard the politics altogether? Just because I'm
>>>>>> interested in open source software does not automatically mean I wish
>>> to
>>>>>> save the rain forest, adopt a panda or indeed 'smash the state'. The
>>>>> recent
>>>>>> uprising(?) of the 99% seems to have the air of a 'Citizen Smith'
>>> remake,
>>>>>> albeit with facebook replacing soapboxes - so please, if just for
>>>>>> intellectual refuge, lets leave the politics to the armchair pundits
>>> and
>>>>>> 1st year social studies students, and get back to what the club was
>>> setup
>>>>>> for.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 29 January 2012 23:15, James Beeley <james.beeley at ntlworld.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'd rather the political stuff went onto a separate list. I'm
>>> following
>>>>>>> the reprap discussion with great interest, but I really don't want
>> to
>>>>>>> read about anarchism and the like.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, 2012-01-29 at 22:38 +0000, Benjamin Dembroski wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Lately, there's been a bunch of emails regarding the reprap stuff.
>>> It
>>>>>>> sounds like things are progressing, and sounds like a very
>> interesting
>>>>> and
>>>>>>> worthwhile project.  However, The discussion is getting increasingly
>>>>>>> specialised.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Given the number of emails, and that they are really only pertinent
>>> to
>>>>> a
>>>>>>> subset of EC members, would it make sense to make a separate mailing
>>>>> list
>>>>>>> to keep the noise down on the general EC list?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Just a thought,
>>>>>>>> Ben D.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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