[ELECTRON] Is the Electron Club Becoming Too Political?

[kirsty at rufa.net]

I totally agree with you Andrew, and well said! 

Kirsty


----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Back [mailto:andy at smokebelch.org]
To: members at electronclub.org
Sent: Fri, 15 May 2009 16:52:13 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELECTRON] Is the Electron Club Becoming Too Political?

On (15:56 15/05/09), James Beeley wrote:
> I think Ross has made a very good point about security and random people
> interrupting activities. As I understand Ross is teaching an Amateur
> Radio Foundation Licence course. When you are teaching a group of people
> it can be very distracting to have others wandering in and out, an it is
> to say the least inconsiderate of the people in question to do so. I'd
> suggest a sign on the door indicating that a class is in progress, and
> asking those who are not participating to respect their need to not be
> disrupted.

That sounds reasonable. Perhaps we could ask that the curious, and potential
joiners arrive  10 or 15 mins before the official start time in order that
they can have an informal chat. And state that after that they must be quiet
and put the needs of the booked group first for the duration of the session.
 
> There is also the issue of security. If, as Nina is suggesting, the EC
> is to go down the Fablabs route and be kitted out with equipment such as
> a milling machine, rapid prototyping machine and laser cutter, it is
> essential for safety and to prevent damage to the equipment that access
> to them is properly controlled and supervised. This will mean a more
> formalised management system with specific people responsible for
> overseeing access to these machines and training and supervising users.
> If an accident occurred due to improper supervision or safety
> procedures, the EC (and possibly individual members) could be open to
> being sued or even to prosecution by the Health & Safety Executive. 

Are there really plans afoot to turn the EC space into a machine shop? I was
unaware of this, can't see how there would be space and imagine the CCA
might not be comfortable with CO2 lasers being used onsite.

I don't think worry-mongering will help here. There has thus far been an
understanding that individuals carry their own personal risk and should not
engage in activities, or use of equipment etc, they are not comfortable
with. If we bring H&E, COSHH and RoHS etc into the equation it will put the
kaibosh on just about everything apart from sitting at a VDU. Oh, no, we'd
need to do proper DSE evaluation before anyone could use a terminal. See what
I'm getting at...
 
> Contrary to Andrew's comments, I don't believe Gordon's comments
> regading "teenage Red Clydesiders" were at all unreasonable. Political

It's a label intended to be derogatory and I fail to see how its application
to fellow members can be considered constructive.

> activists taking over and wrecking otherwise useful organisations is a
> serious problem. To take one example, the University and College Union,
> to which I belonged when I worked at Glasgow University, has sadly been
> taken over by leftist agitators. They waste a great deal of the union's
> precious time and resources over completely irrelevant issues such as
> abortion, Iraq and the entirely useless "boycott" of Israeli academic
> institutions. The net result is that while comparable public sector
> professionals such as senior local government officials, civil servants
> and doctors, who have effective unions focussed on their members' needs,
> have gained generous pay rises, university lecturers' pay has fallen
> behind badly due to the ineffectiveness of the UCU. I'm concerned to see
> the same thing happening to the EC.

"irrelevant issues such as  abortion, Iraq and the entirely useless
"boycott" of Israli academic institutions" -- Argh! Danger Will Robinson!
*You* might think such issues irrelevant but I'm sure I can find plenty who
will think otherwise... Now, can we please, please, strive to remove
personal political opinion which will serve to do nothing other than
exacerbate any conflict of opinion from the list. AFAIK abortion has not
been mentioned on the list to date or at any event, but I'm sure you've just
managed to upset at least one person who has strong views on the matter.

I hate rhubarb. If someone uses the EC to learn how to bake rhubarb crumble,
fine. If one day whilst visiting the EC they use the opportunity to ambush
me and force-feed me rhubarb crumble, not fine. I see no evidence of people
being force-fed.
 
> With the current level of concern over grossly excessive levels of
> government debt and rampant abuse of taxpayers' money, I doubt if
> taxpayers would react well if they found out that their hard-earned
> taxes were effectively subsidising political protest groups, some of
> which are involved in planned and organised criminal activity. If this
> got into the media it would do the EC no good at all.

Are you suggesting that those who are affiliated with political groups have
no right of access to learning? If so I'd refocus your attentions on
libraries, the UK educational system and Internet legislation, before the
EC.
 
> To be honest I'm disappointed in the EC, I was hoping to see a well-run
> electronic/radio/computing/open-source hobby club /hacker space along
> the lines of the Chaos Computer Club or NYC resistor. It seems to me
> there is a risk that the most technically capable people, who are
> essential to achieving this goal, will be driven out by the activists
> who have little real interest in technology. The question really is
> which direction the membership wish to go in?

CCC is political. They do work around the GSM stack and have allegedly had
speakers arrested at customs for carrying SDR kit. I shouldn't be surprised
if there is a computer enthusiast in Germany who works for a GSMA member,
and who is most unhappy with CCCs political activities. What would you say
to him?

With regards direction one thing I reckon you can be fairly sure of is that
if the EC becomes too conservative and seeks to exclude groups with any
political association it will be out on its ear. Again, remember, the CCA is
an arts venue first, and to my mind this cannot work well with a
single-party political ideology.

Cheers,

Andrew
 
-- 
Andrew Back
a at smokebelch.org

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